Comments on: Linguist? Here’s Why the Semantic Web Confuses You – from SES Chicago http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/ Global Search Engine Marketing News And Global Social Media Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:04:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Green Electricity is Here…why Aren’t You Going Green ? | Echelon-Ushttp://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-77660 Green Electricity is Here…why Aren’t You Going Green ? | Echelon-Us Sat, 26 Dec 2009 23:58:50 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-77660 [...] Linguist? Here's Why the Semantic Web Confuses You – from SES Chicago [...] [...] Linguist? Here's Why the Semantic Web Confuses You – from SES Chicago [...]

]]> By: Is social media screwing up your search results?http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-77393 Is social media screwing up your search results? Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:49:29 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-77393 [...] Twitter feeds appearing in Google and  and Bing represent to me a cluttering of search engine space. It’s about quality, when people have mistakenly accepted that it’s about quantity. Because of this I search mostly news sites now, which unfortunately bypasses a lot of otherwise awesome things that might appear in a regular search.  But this may only be a temporary traffic problem, the highway might clear up again in the very near future. Right now it’s about real time search, in the very near future it will be about semantic search engines. [...] [...] Twitter feeds appearing in Google and  and Bing represent to me a cluttering of search engine space. It’s about quality, when people have mistakenly accepted that it’s about quantity. Because of this I search mostly news sites now, which unfortunately bypasses a lot of otherwise awesome things that might appear in a regular search.  But this may only be a temporary traffic problem, the highway might clear up again in the very near future. Right now it’s about real time search, in the very near future it will be about semantic search engines. [...]

]]> By: Martin Hepphttp://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-77306 Martin Hepp Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:05:05 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-77306 GoodRelations RDFa rich mark-up seems to show up in Google snippets now:http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelationsInGoogle GoodRelations RDFa rich mark-up seems to show up in Google snippets now:

http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelationsInGoogle

]]> By: Top Stories at SES Chicago 2009 on Day 3 | Brisbane Search Engine Optimization » SEO « Training - Advice - Tools - Resourceshttp://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-76964 Top Stories at SES Chicago 2009 on Day 3 | Brisbane Search Engine Optimization » SEO « Training - Advice - Tools - Resources Fri, 11 Dec 2009 21:14:23 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-76964 [...] top story was “Linguist? Here’s Why the Semantic Web Confuses You - from SES Chicago” by Andy Atkins-Krüger of the Multilingual Search [...] [...] top story was “Linguist? Here’s Why the Semantic Web Confuses You – from SES Chicago” by Andy Atkins-Krüger of the Multilingual Search [...]

]]> By: Martin Hepphttp://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-76945 Martin Hepp Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:31:29 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-76945 The key to understand the "Semantic Web" is to regard it as a technical innovation that *reduces" the ambiguity, heterogeneity of representation, and contextual dependendies of data. It does not eliminate all those problems, it will just reduce the computational costs of respective problems.Martin The key to understand the “Semantic Web” is to regard it as a technical innovation that *reduces” the ambiguity, heterogeneity of representation, and contextual dependendies of data. It does not eliminate all those problems, it will just reduce the computational costs of respective problems.

Martin

]]> By: alltoutehttp://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-76941 alltoute Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:11:33 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-76941 Andy,I totally agree with you, even small markup could/would improve the results quality a lot. I believe in metadata, I'm working and generating metadata everyday (manually and automatically.) and I'm seeing great things happening with that. I just don't think that it resolves everything and this is one of the main reason why people are confused by the semantic web ;-) Andy,

I totally agree with you, even small markup could/would improve the results quality a lot. I believe in metadata, I’m working and generating metadata everyday (manually and automatically.) and I’m seeing great things happening with that. I just don’t think that it resolves everything and this is one of the main reason why people are confused by the semantic web ;-)

]]> By: Andy Atkins-Krügerhttp://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-76940 Andy Atkins-Krüger Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:02:27 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-76940 Martin - thanks for joining our discussions! alltoute - you are expressing exactly the views I had before joining the session in Chicago. What I realised was that even if things were only categorised as "event" or "product" that would help the quality of the results which search engines would be able to present and that the 'semantic web' is not about trying to explain the context of every single expression! Martin – thanks for joining our discussions! alltoute – you are expressing exactly the views I had before joining the session in Chicago. What I realised was that even if things were only categorised as “event” or “product” that would help the quality of the results which search engines would be able to present and that the ’semantic web’ is not about trying to explain the context of every single expression!

]]> By: alltoutehttp://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-76936 alltoute Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:04:20 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-76936 There will be no magic."we’re going to tell them what the meaning of the page is by adding to the coding. Simple as that."I absolutely agree, except that it is not simple. Yes, machine readible information could resolve lot's of problems, are already resolving a lot and will resolve more in the future. But you can't markup everything because language is complex, ambiguous and context is a dynamic thing. At one point, too much markup will end up with new kind of ambiguity problems. There is not always only one path to an answer. Humans are dealing with this everyday because they know how to discard noise, connecting the right dots, etc. But this is analysis before and after brain markup.Context is not just in the page content, context is also outside, in the head of the user, in the application, etc. The idea of a Semantic Web without any analysis is very utopic for me. The web is already semantic and will continue to be by combining both approach depending on the tasks and available technologies. Technological advancements are going to promote one approach instead of the other over time, but I think that hybrid is the key. For example: Google goggles versus Google Favorite Places with unique QR code window decal. Precision versus recall.Finally, about "computers and algorithms figuring out abstract meaning by ‘understanding’ semantically what was meant by the words on the page". There is no magic, you can't expect computers beeing able to understand everything on their own, but they sure could help a lot to markup unstructured data. The entire web is not going to be markup manually. We need tools to help us and some of them are text mining/analysis tools. Analysis and markup and analysis and markup and ... human-computer-human-computer- ... There will be no magic.

“we’re going to tell them what the meaning of the page is by adding to the coding. Simple as that.”

I absolutely agree, except that it is not simple. Yes, machine readible information could resolve lot’s of problems, are already resolving a lot and will resolve more in the future. But you can’t markup everything because language is complex, ambiguous and context is a dynamic thing. At one point, too much markup will end up with new kind of ambiguity problems. There is not always only one path to an answer. Humans are dealing with this everyday because they know how to discard noise, connecting the right dots, etc. But this is analysis before and after brain markup.

Context is not just in the page content, context is also outside, in the head of the user, in the application, etc. The idea of a Semantic Web without any analysis is very utopic for me. The web is already semantic and will continue to be by combining both approach depending on the tasks and available technologies. Technological advancements are going to promote one approach instead of the other over time, but I think that hybrid is the key. For example: Google goggles versus Google Favorite Places with unique QR code window decal. Precision versus recall.

Finally, about “computers and algorithms figuring out abstract meaning by ‘understanding’ semantically what was meant by the words on the page”. There is no magic, you can’t expect computers beeing able to understand everything on their own, but they sure could help a lot to markup unstructured data. The entire web is not going to be markup manually. We need tools to help us and some of them are text mining/analysis tools. Analysis and markup and analysis and markup and … human-computer-human-computer- …

]]> By: Twitted by StevenForthhttp://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-76899 Twitted by StevenForth Thu, 10 Dec 2009 22:05:51 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-76899 [...] This post was Twitted by StevenForth [...] [...] This post was Twitted by StevenForth [...]

]]> By: Andy Mabbetthttp://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-76896 Andy Mabbett Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:58:56 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-76896 There is great potential for microformats to solve the problems you describe - tagging things as events or products is already done, for instance - but unfortunately their development is in the hands of an unelected and unaccountable cabal which stifles such advancement (there's <a href="http://pigsonthewing.wordpress.com/2009/01/09/microformat-developments-blocked/" rel="nofollow">an example on my blog</a>). There is great potential for microformats to solve the problems you describe – tagging things as events or products is already done, for instance – but unfortunately their development is in the hands of an unelected and unaccountable cabal which stifles such advancement (there’s an example on my blog).

]]> By: Martin Hepphttp://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-76864 Martin Hepp Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:44:48 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-76864 Dear Andy: Thanks for your nice comments! The presentation I gave on the panel is now also available as a video (15 min explaining it all :-)) and via slideshare:Video: http://vimeo.com/8065914Slides: http://tr.im/ses09heppSo if you are interested in using the GoodRelations vocabulary to improve the visibility of your products or services on the Web, that should be a good starting point.All further info on GoodRelations is at http://purl.org/goodrelations/Best wishesMartin HeppPS: The term "rich meta-data" that I am using to explain RDFa and GoodRelations originally comes from Kingsley Idehen, http://twitter.com/kidehen . Dear Andy:
Thanks for your nice comments! The presentation I gave on the panel is now also available as a video (15 min explaining it all :-) ) and via slideshare:

Video: http://vimeo.com/8065914

Slides: http://tr.im/ses09hepp

So if you are interested in using the GoodRelations vocabulary to improve the visibility of your products or services on the Web, that should be a good starting point.

All further info on GoodRelations is at
http://purl.org/goodrelations/

Best wishes

Martin Hepp

PS: The term “rich meta-data” that I am using to explain RDFa and GoodRelations originally comes from Kingsley Idehen, http://twitter.com/kidehen .

]]> By: Tom Folkeshttp://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-76863 Tom Folkes Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:52:03 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-76863 yes Vir err, Andy the semantic web does little or nothing to extend search. I have developed a system which does. It allows the user to build ontologies. The system uses the ontology as a search entity. It also allows the user to determine which sites they want to search. Thus it becomes a multi dimensional search. This system also manages all of the searches it does so that the population at large can leverage previous searches. The site is www.alexlib.info yes Vir err, Andy the semantic web does little or nothing to extend search. I have developed a system which does. It allows the user to build ontologies. The system uses the ontology as a search entity. It also allows the user to determine which sites they want to search. Thus it becomes a multi dimensional search. This system also manages all of the searches it does so that the population at large can leverage previous searches. The site is http://www.alexlib.info

]]> By: Margueritehttp://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-76811 Marguerite Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:34:12 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-76811 Thank you very much for the rehab of what 'semantic' in the syntagm 'semantic web' refers to, that is to say it has nothing to do with linguistics or semantic technologies developped in NLP R&D labs.I am a linguist engineer, I do work in a R&D NLP department, and am continuously facing problems with this abuse of language while trying to explain the 'real' features of a semantic analyzer. So it is very pleasant to see that SEOers are willing to get things clearer.Leave the 'semantics' to the linguists, and continue explaining that rich metadata aims at building a 'World Wise Web' :) Thank you very much for the rehab of what ’semantic’ in the syntagm ’semantic web’ refers to, that is to say it has nothing to do with linguistics or semantic technologies developped in NLP R&D labs.

I am a linguist engineer, I do work in a R&D NLP department, and am continuously facing problems with this abuse of language while trying to explain the ‘real’ features of a semantic analyzer. So it is very pleasant to see that SEOers are willing to get things clearer.

Leave the ’semantics’ to the linguists, and continue explaining that rich metadata aims at building a ‘World Wise Web’ :)

]]> By: Twitter Trackbacks for Linguist? Here’s Why the Semantic Web Confuses You - from SES Chicago [multilingual-search.com] on Topsy.comhttp://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009/comment-page-1/#comment-76806 Twitter Trackbacks for Linguist? Here’s Why the Semantic Web Confuses You - from SES Chicago [multilingual-search.com] on Topsy.com Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:17:05 +0000 http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/09/12/2009#comment-76806 [...] Linguist? Here’s Why the Semantic Web Confuses You - from SES Chicago www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/ – view page – cached Because of what I do - specialising in international and multilingual search that is - for years people have been ... [...] [...] Linguist? Here’s Why the Semantic Web Confuses You – from SES Chicago http://www.multilingual-search.com/linguist-heres-why-the-semantic-web-confuses-you-from-ses-chicago/ – view page – cached Because of what I do – specialising in international and multilingual search that is – for years people have been … [...]

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